Thank youΕπεξεργασία

Thank you, Barishan, for your contributions! ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 11:49, 18 Μαΐου 2020 (UTC)

☏ Barishan, I would also wish to thank you for your support and contribution. We really need to expand our turkinsh language in the greek wiktionary, so any valuable time you might spend here is mostly welcome and appreciated. Welcome to our camaraderie.--Costaud (συζήτηση) 17:06, 13 Ιουλίου 2020 (UTC)
It's always a pleasure for me! I love going into the beauty of the Greek language and discovering the similarities and tricks between two languages as well as learning new Greek words. Thank you both for your kind messages. Cheers from the other side of the coast, as we say in Turkish :) ! Barishan (συζήτηση) 22:05, 13 Ιουλίου 2020 (UTC)

Vowel harmonyΕπεξεργασία

☏ Barishan, your edit at -cı for vowel harmony is excellent and too good to be confined to one lemma. How about an Appendix:Vowel harmony (Turkish). It would be very useful for all lemmata. There is also a nice table at WP. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 13:24, 4 Ιουλίου 2020 (UTC)

However you want, I am completely at your service at this point :) Maybe a better version of this table (which includes examples and doesn't cover the half of a page) could be added:
Forms of -cı
The last vowel is back, unrounded
(a, ı)
The last vowel is front, unrounded
(e, i)
The last vowel is back, rounded
(o, u)
The last vowel is front, rounded
(ö, ü)
The last consonant is voiced -cı -ci -cu -cü
The last consonant is unvoiced -çı -çi -çu -çü
The word ends in a vowel -cı -ci -cu -cü

If that's a good concept to add under an appendix, I can then keep creating such tables for other numerous suffixes. Barishan (συζήτηση) 13:40, 4 Ιουλίου 2020 (UTC)

☏ Barishan I'm thinking... and i'm checking various sources.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel_harmony#Turkish
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language#Vowel_harmony
https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BCrk%C3%A7e (don't know which paragraph)
https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Φωνηεντική_αρμονία (GR: vowel harmony in general, only few examples)
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:About_Turkish (astonishingly short)
PLAN: to make Βικιλεξικό:Τουρκική γλώσσα (Wiktionary:Tr lang). Include there, a general Chapter: Vowel harmonly, directing to: Παράρτημα:Φωνηεντική αρμονία (τουρκικά) (Appendix:Vowel harmony (Turkish). Create an english subpage Παράρτημα:Φωνηεντική αρμονία (τουρκικά)/en so that a) you can work with ease in english and b) that it remain as a good ref for nongreek readers. How about it. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 13:52, 4 Ιουλίου 2020 (UTC)

SerbocroatianΕπεξεργασία

 
Supposedly "trilingual"

☏ Barishan, I see that you do Serbocroatian. Are some language codes deprecated? (cf Κατηγορία:Σερβοκροατική γλώσσα). The problem here at el.wikt, is that we have Serbian and Croatian and Serbocroatian... en.wikt has only Serbocroatian. I have NO idea what is going on... ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 10:25, 19 Ιουλίου 2020 (UTC)

Plus Bosnian and Montenegrin! Yes, it's a long-standing debate and a common name for all those 4 varieties, which are basically the same with some minor differences in grammar, vocabulary and spelling. At en.wikt there used to be separate entries for B/S/C but then they were all united under Serbo-Croatian even though there are still separate wikiprojects in B/S/C and SC. The debate is complicated just like the post-Yugoslav countries themselves :) I think, for Wiktionary projects, it's better to use Serbo-Croatian because otherwise we'd mostly be adding 4 identical entries to the same page, just like that packet of cigarettes on the right.

We sent you an e-mailΕπεξεργασία

Hello Barishan,

Really sorry for the inconvenience. This is a gentle note to request that you check your email. We sent you a message titled "The Community Insights survey is coming!". If you have questions, email surveys@wikimedia.org.

You can see my explanation here.

MediaWiki message delivery (συζήτηση) 18:48, 25 Σεπτεμβρίου 2020 (UTC)

kara listeΕπεξεργασία

☏ Barishan Hello! Happy New Year, and congratulations on your kara work! About «πολυλεκτικός όρος» (polylectic term), it is not a term I have known in greek grammars. I found it here. And it is wrong, because it should have been: polylectic nouns. Probably it has been created just for distinguishing nouns that are separated by space, from nouns that are true compounds. It does not matter if you wish not to use it for Turkish, but we would need to be consistent and change Κατηγορία:Πολυλεκτικοί όροι (τουρκικά). A similar situation arises in English with nouns that are compounds, nouns with hyphen, nouns with space between the 2 words. So, please do as you wish: you are the administrator for Turkish. You may, or may not use the {{p|tr|xxx|0=-}} for compounds according to your judgement. Tesh. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 18:24, 25 Ιανουαρίου 2021 (UTC)

Hi Sarri! Thank you very much and a Happy New Year! I love those kara words because they all have a story behind them. In Turkish, compounds may be written with our without space and hyphen, depending on the word. So {{p|tr|xxx|0=-}} seems pretty cool to me, as they are Λέξεις με συνθετικό 'kara' indeed. But if that's OK for you, I will keep using Ousiastikó in accordance with the Turkish Language Association's dictionary. Barishan (συζήτηση) 18:31, 25 Ιανουαρίου 2021 (UTC)
☏ Barishan, OK, great. Noun it is. For such Categories, {auto cat} is ok, i hope!. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 18:36, 25 Ιανουαρίου 2021 (UTC)
☏ Barishan While changing all Κατηγορία:Πολυλεκτικοί όροι (τουρκικά) to nouns. The thing is: we loose it as subcategory of nouns. Some of them seem like expressions. Perhaps we could create an extra template for them? Let's think about this... ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 19:00, 25 Ιανουαρίου 2021 (UTC)
☏ Sarri.greek Hmm... In Turkish we divide compounds into 5 groups:
ADJ+NOUN (kara yazı)
NOUNnominative+NOUNnominative (kurşun kalem)
NOUNnominative+NOUN3rd per pos (su aygırı)
NOUNgenitive+NOUN3rd per pos (evin bahçesi)
3 or more NOUNS and/or ADJs (deve kuşu yumurtası)
All are considered nouns, it's just such subcategories... I mean that might be unnecessarily detailed for non-native speakers. I wouldn't categorize any of them as expressions, there are some metaphorical usages however. In kara toprak, for example, a category like "Μεταφορικά (τουρκικά)" would just do good I guess Barishan (συζήτηση) 19:31, 25 Ιανουαρίου 2021 (UTC)
☏ Barishan, unfortunately, I am not a linguist, and I have not studied Compounds, and we have no templates and categories for Κατηγορία:Σύνθετα (exocentric, endocentric etc etc). unfortunately.
Two initial thoughts. There is 1) Grammar (as it has evolved in the tradition of each language), and 2) Etymology:composition as in linguistics. These two, do not coincide, as I understand. One can clearly see that composition does not occur in the same manner for e.g. loose compounds, as in compound words. Anyway. We could just, for the moment make a little gagdet for these Nouns, and add it at the bottom of page e.g. Template:πολυλεκτικό ουσιαστικό or something like that, just to preserve a subcategory for the sake of categorization. The term for greek is loose compound (χαλαρό σύνθετο) and I would have preferred it to polylectic noun.
One more note. The titls for PartOfSpeech e.g. at en.wiktionary describe the syntactic role of the word. Here, in el.wikt, the grammatical recognition of the word is described. For example, you will note, that abbreviations in en.wikt. are described as nouns, adjectives, etc, while here, they are described as Κατηγορία:Συντομομορφές, with no comment on their role in the sentence.
I could make a little Template tomorrow. ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 19:49, 25 Ιανουαρίου 2021 (UTC)

☏ Barishan sorry to bother you again. Check these two trialwords at Κατηγορία:Πολυλεκτικά ουσιαστικά (τουρκικά). The nouns are normally under Κατηγορία:Ουσιαστικά (τουρκικά)
plus this extra Cat. added with template {{πολυλεκτικό ουσιαστικό|tr}} I place the template near the PartOfSpeech. Thank you for your nice notes on compound nouns. I keep notes..:) ‑‑Sarri.greek  | 20:47, 25 Ιανουαρίου 2021 (UTC)

☏ Sarri.greek You would never bother me. That system seems fantastic, I think it is the most convenient way in terms of both linguistics and categorization. Euxaristw poly! Tomorrow I will start to edit the compound nouns one by one. Barishan (συζήτηση) 23:02, 25 Ιανουαρίου 2021 (UTC)